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SPOILER ALERT: Mini-Recap & Discussion Post for “Sundown”

March 2nd, 2010 § 81


After the jump: Mini-recap, questions, theories, and predictions!

This week on Lost, we saw Sideways Sayid bringing flowers to the love of his life Nadia…who was married to his brother! And not only did his brother steal his girl, he also borrowed some money from a few no-goodnicks (i.e. Keamy!). Keamy and Gang roughed up Sayid’s bro, Nadia begged Sayid not to retaliate, and he didn’t – for like 10 whole minutes! Then Keamy’s lackies kidnapped Sayid to try and get him to repay his brother’s debts, only Sayid’s “survival skills” kicked in and he shot them all to death! And then he randomly found a tied-up Jin in a walk-in freezer!

On the island, Dogen asked Sayid to kill Mocke, whom Dogen referred to as “evil incarnate.” The only problem was that when Sayid did as Dogen asked and stabbed Mocke, nothing happened! That is, nothing happened apart from Mocke telling Sayid he could bring Nadia back to life if he just did him this one teeny favor – go back to the temple, tell the people there that it was Mocke’s way or the highway, and then kill Dogen. Which Sayid did, no problemo. So basically all the Others could join up with Mocke or get Smoked Out, and unfortunately most of them seemed to choose the latter and ended up being bloody corpses. Luckily for Kate, Claire was on Team Smokey, and she kept her safe during the rampage, despite apparently wanting to tear Kate’s still-beating heart out of her chest! And then Ilana and Crew showed up and hid in some secret passageway in the temple, so Smokey didn’t get them. Yet.

So in a nutshell, Sayid has totally gone to the dark side, Claire is even creepier than we could have ever imagined, Keamy is a dick in any dimension, and Smokey is seemingly indestructible, but has no problem destroying everyone else.

Not too many theory-type questions to come out of this episode, but…

1. How awesome was slo-mo Mocke at the end? (Terry O’Quinn is TEARING IT UP this season!!) And the creepy “Catch a Falling Star” song over the crazy death scene? Amazing.
2. Claire is SO CRAZY, right? Why do you think she protected Kate? Don’t you think she would have just let Smokey get her?
3. Sayid. So evil. It sucks that his old self is gone, but evil looks good on him, I think.
4. What was Jin doing in the freezer? And what did he have to do with Keamy?
5. Is Dogen really gone? (I doubt it.)
6. What is the deal with Ilana? How does she always know what to do?
7. Can ANYTHING hurt Mocke? Is he really evil incarnate? Can he really grant people’s wishes, or was all that talk just to bring people to the Dark Side? Where is he leading everyone, and why does every living thing on the island need to die if he’s leaving?

That’s all I’ve got for now, I’m sure I’ll be adding to this as I think of more.

Public Service Announcement: Before anyone leaves another “BOO WE NEED ANSWERS” comment, guys? Just enjoy the ride. The show’s almost over, your biggest questions will get answered, and I’m sure it will be awesome. They aren’t giving us a rundown of every answer ever because that would make bad TV. They need to stretch it out. They are showing, not telling. If being patient’s not your thing, wait 3 months and then watch them all in a row. But if you’re going to stick it out, enjoy it while it lasts! We only have 3 months left!! ;_;


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§ 81 Responses to “SPOILER ALERT: Mini-Recap & Discussion Post for “Sundown””

  • Dawn, different Dawn says:

    Hi Ack, first, ILU! – you make my day. I haven’t posted before, but here’s something that bothers me about the episode that maybe you and the trusty posters here can address.

    I think we were presented with a false equivalent when Dogen said that Jacob offered to save his son, and asked if The Man Outside made Sayid a similar offer. That leaves us feeling like they’re the same, but all it does is feed the Is Jacob Really the Good Guy? debate. The two offers seem like total opposites to me.

    We saw Jacob bring Locke back from the should-have-been-dead, and we can assume that Dogen Jr. also would have been in the shbd category after the terrible drunken accident Dogen got them into.

    But, Jacob’s resurrections also seem to require a sacrifice of some sort. Smokey’s promises can’t actually be fulfilled – nadia’s been dead for 3+ years (hardly still in the murky shbd area), and we all know Aaron’s been off the island for 3 years, and Smokey must know this too, so how can he promise to get Aaron back from the Temple Others? And to top it off, his bargains all rely on the bargainer’s inherent selfishness and lack of self-awareness.

    A couple other observations. I feel like we finally saw the pwning of Sayid (what?!>!), but that he was saved by Dogen’s baseball/conscience/mercy instinct, when then left him able to Choose Poorly. Also, all the other sideways characters have showed themselves to be capable of self reflection, learning and change, whereas sideways!Sayid wasn’t able to change in the end.

    I really liked the Smokey/Voldemort mention above. the crucial thing Voldy didn’t have was mercy. Tons of gray area between the Others thinking they were on Jacob’s team, yet also clearly having no/precious little mercy, but holy shit Smokey has NONE. Also, Voldemort wasn’t destroyed in the end by HP, but by his own lack of mercy.

    that’s all I’ve got. looking forward to monday’s recap!

  • Greg says:

    These episodes are getting better and better!

    Sayid has totally turned to the darkside. Team Smokey is kicking some ass and taking names.

    I wonder what Team Jacob has up their sleeves now.

    Next Episode Dr. Linus!

  • rowantree67 says:

    You’re the best and funniest there is, Ack!! Thanks.

    I agree to those who whine about “no answers.” Gah!! If the show started to provide us with TOO many answers TOO early, the show would lose steam or momentum. Something like that.

    I LOVE LOST, just the way it is!! As crazy and madcap and out-there as it is… It does not get any better than this show, ladies and gents.

    Thanks again,
    for all that you do…
    This comment’s for you!

  • Tess says:

    The island is said to be a four-lettered word, involving the letter ‘o’. I think the four lettered word is ZION.

    And one of the female writers who gave a clue to the finale in the word of ‘water’? What happened to the world during the story of Noah’s ark? It got FLOODED.

    According to the Old Testament, “God dwells among his chosen people” in Zion.

    Just sayin’.

  • Keekers says:

    Agree/puzzled by all the same points. And THANK YOU for that PSA! This episode actually had a ton of action — so twisty! Loved the smoke monster moving through the temple and destroying all in its path.

    Here’s another insanity-builder for you: WHERE IS SAWYER??! He was traipsing through the jungle with Mocke on the way to Claire’s place, but now…. ???

    Also, Richard? Is he still hiding? After all these years of protecting Jacob (is that was he was doing?) shouldn’t he have a clue of what to do, even more than Dogen and Ilana do? Why didn’t HE run to the temple behind the ash ring? Does Ilana know Richard? I have a feeling they are lovahs.

    And Jin is still in Claire’s tent with his foot up?

    I do have more questions about Dogen and all the temple-dwellers, too, but oh wells! Onward and downward!

  • Kate says:

    Ben looking at Sayid like he was just a whole bucketful of crazy and then running away is one of my top 10 Lost moments ever.

    2–Claire didn’t kill BLT until she was sure she’d gotten all the info out of him she was going to. Kate didn’t tell Claire where her baby was, just that she had been the one to take her. I kind of suspect Claire didn’t kill her just because she needs the rest of the info. Or maybe it was just the timing. Claire was kind of blissed out on a Death Eater-esque high when Smokey blew over her hole…

  • rowantree67 says:

    P.S. I meant to write: I agree with YOU regarding the whiners who want answers. I don’t need (many) answers! I look at LOST the way I look at Moby-Dick (my favorite novel) — it’s so deep and mysterious and open-ended. That way, one can re-visit it time and time again. With too many spelled-out answers (especially this early in the season), it would be uninteresting in the long-run.

    My two cents!

  • Jacobita says:

    First matter of bussines: luv the mini recaps!! I wait until they’re up to go to bed after a lost episode (and bear in mind I work and have to be up at 6am!)

    Now… I got a genie-in-a-bottle-theory to run by you all!!Do you think that what we are seeing as an epilogue, might be Smocke keeping his promise to those who followed him to get off the island? I’m thinking he might do that by some sort of time reset, but since he can’t reset time for only a handful of people, it takes everyone back. But, the island time is still somehow imprinted in the Losties, both physically and mentaly (hence the Deja vu feelings and physical scars)…

    Why I believe this? mostly because of last night’s ep, and the deal Sayid struck with MIB… The granting the wish for Sayid, might work the way an evil genie in a bottle grants a wish: he’ll give you what you asked for, but not exactly the way you think it’ll work out… So Sayid agrees to work for Smocke if he can have Nadia back, and in sideways land he does, only not in the way he wishes, but she is alive and he does have her back.

    So if this were true… Do you see the possibility that the 2 time lines converge because since the original one has left an imprint on the sideways one, the losties (especially those that made the choice for this new timeline) will figure out that this might not be what they wanted and that they have to go back to their island selves (maybe just in time for the battle that put them in the sideways)????

    Why I’m right? the genie in the bottle always comes out in a “puff of smoke”… badabing badabom!! BOOM. Lost…

  • Zach says:

    The “Magic Box” Ben referred to earlier is actually going to show up! Sayid, Claire, and Sawyer have all been offered things from the magic box and they will actually explain it? P.S. My favorite characters in order: Claire, Charlie, Sayid, Richard, Faraday. Why do they hate me so by making all my favorites dead or evil?

  • Kimmerz says:

    1. that song was eerie, was claire singing it in earlier seasons when ethaaaaan had her? in her nursery? and mocke was amazking
    . i think claire needs more information before she kills kate, hopefully she’ll recognize kate and remember they were friends and bring back GOOD memories, and then off kate most likely herself, she wants the glory

    3. Sayid. LIFE CRISIS. he is OVER his life and gonna get some answers.

    4. the watch fiasco? is this who he was supposed to take it to? was there a mix up?

    5. i still think good and bad on this show are irrelevant starting with Benry’s “we’re the good guys” line way back when, there are just different sides and everyone thinks they’re the good/right/holy side

    6. she must have more experience with the island and jacob than we know? that was crazy when she just BUSTED IN

    7. who effing knows. i don’t think anything can kill him b/c how do you kill smoke? and if his physical body can’t be harmed- dismembering and burning the pieces is all i can guess

    what i want to know is why locke is always dressed when smokey takes his form, aren’t clothes harder to create than a body? HAHAHAHA neekkkkkkkkkkkkid

  • Antoinette says:

    @Jacobita I mostly agree with you. But I’m hoping the losties get to keep their new LA X lives. It’s the happy ending. If they don’t, then it must be a sad island ending. :(

  • LostTeaParty says:

    Ack you rock! and I loved your PSA – Darlton said it best in that EW article about how they’re driving and we should just trust them (or not) but that they were driving and we should just enjoy the ride and if we feel like throwing up we should just roll down the window but whatever we do; we should NOT get out of the car!! ha ha kinda reminds me of NOT leaving the Temple or the Island for that matter.

    I think that they are showing us plenty and that in the end all of the answers will tumble into place and bitch slap us with complete awesomeness. Fasten your seatbelts, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!

  • Ali M says:

    THANK YOU for your PSA – I tell people this ALL the time – enjoy it man – don’t question, just drink the kool-aid and have fun!

  • Ali M says:

    oh one other thing – how awesome was the look on Ben’s face when he realized Sayid had gone to the dark side/crazy land – back away slowly and get the F outta dodge, LMAO!!!!

  • Stowaway says:

    “Before anyone leaves another “BOO WE NEED ANSWERS” comment, guys? Just enjoy the ride.” *high fives* Agreed. We have stuck with Lost for 6 years. There are 56075907953384534 questions. We won’t get 56075907953384534 answers, but we will get some, so just get over it and wait.

  • Kiersten says:

    “Ben looking at Sayid like he was just a whole bucketful of crazy and then running away is one of my top 10 Lost moments ever.”

    Yes, this! LOL!

    I’m in the same camp as Jacobita for the most part: MIB is offering “life without Jacob having interfered with you” to all these folks, and the alt timeline is how that plays out. To Sawyer & the Temple Others: “wanna go home?” To Claire: “Want Aaron back?” To Sayid: “Want your true love who died in your arms back?”

    Two things to notice: all these are fulfilled in the alt timeline (but not quite perfectly) and he never actually *promises* to do any of them, just implies it and lets them believe he agreed.

  • Kimmerz says:

    i think the answers whining is because they made such a big deal with the opening “THERE WILL BE ANSWER, QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED” and then there weren’t any, so people were expecting at least something. like a drug. we’re all like crazy withdrawal ride. but so far, none of us are quitting. and their answers are never really 1+1=2. we have to read them and figure them out. they’re not going to flat out tell us.

    but i was a bit of a whiner anyway, if that stupid voice over hadn’t promised me so sweet delicious chocolated covered answers…. ;-)

    and to quote Hurley still “i want some freakin answers!!!” that’s all i kept thinking of….

    i still can’t get ilana, benry, lapenis and sun BUSTING INTO THE TEMPLE, that was great. i’ve missed ben.

  • Henry Gale says:

    Replying before I’ve had my thoughts affected by other posts…

    2. Claire is SO CRAZY, right? Why do you think she protected Kate? Don’t you think she would have just let Smokey get her?

    ***What, and essentially outsource her revenge? That’s like outsourcing…well, anything pleasurable. She wants to be a DIY gal, yanno.

    **What I think is remarkable about this episode is the degree to which Kate is completely out of the loop. She has no idea how crayzeee Claire is; no idea about Claire’s vow of revenge. It’s odd to see Kate as the pigeon in the con for once, not the con artist.

    4. What was Jin doing in the freezer?

    ***Looked to me like he was shivering. ;-)
    ***But srsly, my guess is that Mr. Paik sent him to the U.S. with that watch for a “business associate” — possibly Widmore or a Widmore affiliate, which is what I’m guessing Jin’s connection with Keamy is coming out of, given that Widmore sent Keamy’s freighter team to the island.

    7. Can ANYTHING hurt Mocke? Is he really evil incarnate? Can he really grant people’s wishes, or was all that talk just to bring people to the Dark Side? Where is he leading everyone, and why does every living thing on the island need to die if he’s leaving?

    ***I believe he can. The obvious parallel here is Satan’s temptation of Christ, where he lays out all the money, and the POWUH and the WEEMEN and says, “J-dawg, it’s yours for the taking, ma homie.” I don’t for a minute believe Satan was lying, and I don’t think Smokie is either — in fact, I think that much of his persuasive power comes from his telling the truth.

  • maureen_in_mukilteo says:

    “What was Jin doing in the freezer? And what did he have to do with Keamy?”

    It was Jin’s restaurant and Keamy was hitting him up for protection money too?

    “Is Dogen really gone? (I doubt it.)”

    I fear so. Just like Dumbledor had to die. Dogen was the guardian of the Temple and so must join the guardian of the island, Jacob, in death. Jack is the hero and, in the end, must face the antagonist alone without anyone’s help. Man to smoke. This is Jack’s destiny.

    “Claire is SO CRAZY, right? Why do you think she protected Kate?”

    Did she? Didn’t Kate sort of fall onto the ladder when Smoky came roaring over the pit? Basically she hid with Claire. Then she came out and joined the group at the end but was minus the vacant eyes and smiling face. Kate’s face was puzzled so I don’t think she is on team Smoky. Yet.

    “Can ANYTHING hurt Mocke?”

    I want Ben to figure this out. To redeem himself because when Ilana finds out who killed Jacob he will need it.

    Questions: Dogen marked (branded) Sayid and Claire. Was this the same sort of marking Ben had done to Juliet and that was why all the Others sort of gasped when the sheriff read Ben’s instructions?

    How is team Smoky going to get off island if Richard isn’t around to tell them how he gets off (even before Dhrama)? I was going over my list of questions that I need answered by the end and found: did Locke blow up the submarine? There has to be a reason for the way that was set up. Perhaps now it pays off since whatever Locke thought Smoky now knows. Join the chorus: “We all live in a smoky submarine, smoky submarine, smoky submarine.”

    I’m thinking a whole lot of these observations are now going to pay off. Like the Black Rock and all the times chains have been mentioned. Now they are mentioned again in connection with Richard. Much as I want Richard to be an ancient Roman, that is not going to happen.

  • Henry Gale says:

    I also had a thought. I don’t know if anyone has offered this before, but I’d be curious as to people’s responses.

    What if, when the 2 timelines converge, we find out that some of what we saw in earlier seasons was not what we thought we were seeing?

    I just saw “Hearts and Minds” (Season 1) again. Go re-watch it, peeps, and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Could fLocke have been fLocking around earlier than we thought? Could he — somehow — have been inhabiting John earlier than we believed? Is the Locke we saw in Season 1 — and maybe throughout — really Locke? I do realize that it’s hard not to see John Locke now without seeing him through the lens of Smokey, but the coincidences between him and the Smoke Monster seem more than coincidental.

    Just sayin’.

  • Antoinette says:

    @Henry I think so. When we found out there were flashforwards and I rewatched some earlier episodes there were some things that had happened that could have been in the future even. One scene with Jack and Sarah seemed particularly suspicious. I think when all is said and done me might end up looking at a lot of things differently.

  • Lisa says:

    I, too, think that Sayid is going to get Zombie!Shannon back, not his beloved Nadia. Which ticks me off, frankly. The only question is, will MockLocke do it on purpose, knowing Sayid really wants Nadia, or is Sayid still on his “I don’t deserve a decent woman” kick and actually wants that selfish bee-yotch Shannon back?

  • Signature One Punch Knock Out says:

    Missed last night’s episode, so I finally saw it on the ABC website.

    2. I actually think Claire’s about as threatening as a cream puff. I mean I know this sounds like a knock on Emilie de Ravin’s acting abilities, but as I like both her and the character…I just wish Claire were more believable as Crazy Person. A really intense gaze does not a crazy person make.

    I think Claire’s juuuuust crazy enough to enjoy playing with Kate like prey until she tries to kill her (yes! But it will not succeed! No! ;_;).

    3. Sayid’s “evil” is complicated by the fact that when you add up all his life decisions, they’re almost *always* evil. So if you were going to, I dunno, “round up” his moral value, he’s pretty much all evil all the time and to me this doesn’t seem much different.

    In fact, it’s ironic because I *do* believe he still has some good in him, as he said he did in this episode. I mean if you’re going to take the Philip Pullman view of it, that there are no good or bad people, only good or bad acts, then that’s what’s ALWAYS FRUSTRATED ME ABOUT SAYID’S CHARACTER! I know the writers want me to empathize with him, ooh he’s so complex, etc., etc. but OMG — that’s he SUCH a complex character who always makes the DUMBEST decisions… *facepalm*. I think the resigned acceptance of “I kill and maim and torture because THAT’S WHO I AM” is such a disservice to such an interesting character. But it does play up the whole innate nature & destiny/free will thing.

    Sayid’s always been somewhat of an unsettling character to me because of the combination of resignation and relish with which he embraces his role. “Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in!”

    4. I wonder if Jin managed to get away from the customs guys at the airport and had to deliver the watch and cash to Keamy. And then for some reason they gagged him and stuffed him in a freezer because, well, it’s Keamy.

    5. God I hope so. Dogen was starting to be the show’s new Biggus Dickus to me (after Benry, but I have such a weak spot for him!).

    6. Jacob told her.

    7. I *honestly* don’t think Mocke’s evil incarnate. I think when it comes down to the whole b/w thing, Jacob = Destiny and Esau (his name afaic) = Free Will. I find the concept of Free Will to be darker and obviously more unknowable than Destiny…maybe that’s where the whole color scheme’s coming from. (If this is the case, maybe Sayid following Mocke is a good thing, it sure looks like he could use a good reminder of the possibility of free will.)

    Benry running from Sayid = How does he manage to be terrified and cute at the same time?! Also I do wish they would give Miles more lines.

  • Signature One Punch Knock Out says:

    Oh yeah haven’t read the other comments yet but will do so now.

  • Nannorama says:

    Woops! I’m super late on this, but I just wanted to post a couple thoughts. Thinking back on it, it was a good episode, but I definately have to rewatch it. I remember being very underwhelmed by the first half of it, but I think that’s because I was watching it with my parents and I was very conscious of my father’s silent judgement, haha! A few points!
    – I have to admit that as much as I love Sayid, his episodes aren’t my favourite because they all seem fairly one note to me. He struggles with his past, he tries to atone for his sins, he eventually gives into him. Also, he feels sad about one of his various lost loves. Etc.
    – The last five minutes were fantastic. I youtubed the final scene the next day just because I wanted to see it again. To me I think that was kind of their way of KICKING THIS THING INTO GEAR. I feel like shit just got real and it’s AWESOME.
    – Lol at poor Jin for being captured/bound/seperated from his wife in both realities. This poor guy!
    – Claire is so batshit insane, I can’t even believe it. I loved the ‘Catch a falling star’ addition to the final scene, and I feel like it was a way of showing us just how much these people have changed since season one. It was kind of like “Aww, remember that cute peanut-butter lovin’ mama from season one? WELL SHE’S ALL FUCKED UP NOW.”
    – I can honestly say I am not even a little remiss about Dogen or Lennon’s death. I really wasn’t interested in them at all, maybe because it’s just a little too late for so many new characters. During Dogen scenes I felt the same way I did during Pierre Chang scenes last season; bored and wanting them to be over.
    – That being said, I’m slowly warming to Ilana. I LOVE Team Jacob taking the temple by storm. They’re such a fantastic, oddball group. Plus, Team Jacob has Frank, Miles AND Ben. It’s going to be a very snarky, sarcastic army indeed.
    – I know that ABC promos are BUNK, but I’m still worried about Ben for next week. I’M NOT READY TO SAY GOODBYE. DON’T TAKE HIM AWAY FROM US YET.

    One final thought: 100% agreement on the “complaining about answers” rant. Admittedly I’ve been tempted to complain myself, but in all honestly there’s no point. If you’re not enjoying the show and being entertained by it, don’t watch. I have faith in the writers to satisfy us in the end, and they have a lot to cover. Just let them do their thing! I, for one, am content to just be along for the ride at this point. WHATEVER HAPPENS HAPPENS, YO.

  • Lauren M says:

    Finally got to catch the whole episode on the ABC website today.

    I don’t even know where to begin. The ending was increadibly epic. Sayid and Flocke’s bad ass staredown with Claire’s fantastically creepy rendetion of catch a falling star.

    I still don’t trust smokey, I think he decieves people just to get them on his side and then just tosses aside what they want. I do think he can be killed but it’s a very complicated way and doing so would cause huge destruction.

    Claire is such a nutball but I’m kinda diggin it. I was getting tired of her “Oh my baaaahby” line. It adds some cool depth to her character.

    With Dogen and Lennon, eh I was kinda getting interested in Dogen but Lennon I could do without. I could really care less if the temple others live or die at this point.

    Ben’s backing away slowly and then running away from Sayid was so freaking fantastic. Michael deserves another Emmy just for that. And just give Terry O’Quinn an Emmy for every episode he appears in this season, he is beyond awesome.

    That’s just my two cents. Next week’s episode looks EPIC but if Ben dies, I will fly into a murderous rage.

  • Lauren M says:

    Oh, and I almost forgot how much I love Miles. Thanks episode for reminding me!

  • TheGhostOfFrankLapidus'Beard says:

    “Keamy is a dick in any dimension.”


    (And I was TOTALLY thinking that during the show!)

  • Amy Ess says:

    *sigh* late again, my brain moves very slowly. Believe it or not when Dogen told Sayid that “If he talks you’re done for.” (sic) I immediately thought of Ted Bundy. The detectives from Washington state who were chasing him told the police who caught him in Colorado, “DON’T LET HIM TALK TO YOU, ONCE HE DOES YOU’RE DONE FOR.” What they meant was right after his murders he would become vulnerable, and the way he depersonalized and was able to funtion was by talking, interacting with people, charming them. I know this is a really macabre and odd thing to post, but had to mention it in light of Mocke’s total EVIL INCARNATE.

    On a lighter note, I mentioned on another site that I really thought that the flash sideways are the WISHES that MOCKE has granted. How they are playing out. Sayid wanted Nadia alive, well, she’s alive but NOT HIS WIFE. Kind of smacks of a bait and switch, doesn’t it? And Claire, wanting her baby, well she get’s it in the sideways flash, yes? Adoptive mama all boo-hoo he left me I can’t raise a baybee alone. *smack* Thanks for the phone call biatch. Anyway, will stop here but you see where I’m going. I think more will be revealed about each person’s wish.

  • liz156 says:

    1. That was awesome, I still think O’Quinn must be having a ball this season. What did you make of the look he gave Kate?

    2. I think she wants to save Kate for herself! She’s just crazy enough to think it.

  • Derek says:

    By the way, I love these discussions about the episodes, and I love the recaps for them too! And I started a blog a long time ago about Lost, and I was wondering if you’d like to see it. It’s

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