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SPOILER ALERT: Mini-Recap & Discussion Post for “Across the Sea”

May 11th, 2010 § 102

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM THE LATEST EPISODE OF LOST.

After the jump: Mini-recap, questions, theories, and predictions!

This week on Lost, we found out that not only are Jacob and Smokey brothers, they are twins that were born waaaaay back in the day to this woman who washed up on the shore of the island, only to give birth and then get clubbed over the head by a crazy lady I’ll call The Woman. The Woman then raised Jacob and Smokey as her own until they were 13, at which point she showed them a magical glowy light that emanated from the center of the island and told them that one of them was going to have to protect it. Overprotective would be putting it lightly when describing this Woman – not only did she make the twins immortal, but she told them never to go hang out with the other men on the island because they were evil and whatnot. But the ghost of the twins’ real mother gave Smokey a guided tour to the Others’ camp, and also let him know that The Woman killed her! Smokey was obviously pissed about this, so he left to go live with the Others, leaving Jacob behind with The Woman.

Later, the boys are all growns up and The Woman has trained Jacob to be the best island protector he can be, which sucks for him because she obviously wanted Smokey to take the job instead. But Smokey was off with the Others, figuring out ways to get to that pretty glowy light The Woman showed him all those years ago so he can get the hell off the island. Jacob hears about Smokey’s plans, tells The Woman, The Woman knocks Smokey out (because finding that light is bad news), fills in the well he was working in, and burns/kills all the Others! Sensing retribution, she quickly gets Jacob to drink some magical wine that apparently transfers her landlord rights over to him, then Smokey stabs her to death! Then an infuriated Jacob throws Smokey into the glowy light, which according The Woman is “worse than death!” Once he touches the golden light, Smokey turns into a cloud of smoke, his physical body is for all intents and purposes dead, and Jacob lays both The Woman and Smokey in the caves, to be discovered thousands of years later by Jack and Kate as Adam and Eve.

I liked this episode a lot, I hope too many haters don’t show up and rain on our parades.

The more I am thinking about all of this, the more confused I am getting.

Questions:

Big Question: Do you think that Smokey is the Man in Black, or was Smokey separate and released once the Man in Black touched the light? I think Smokey = The Man in Black. Why else would he still be fighting with Jacob? Those two hold a grudge. If Smokey was a separate entity, why would it have a beef with Jacob? He’d be happy Jacob set it free!

1. So what is the actual danger of Smokey leaving the island? “We all go to hell” How? Why? Because he’s the smoke monster? Will he go on a killing spree for no reason? He’s evil because Jacob made him evil…according to that episode, maybe he just wants to get a change of scenery?

2. What is the significance of Smokey seeing the visions of Jacob in the jungle in previous episodes, and why was he bloody? We still have no idea, right?

3. In the latest podcast, Damon and Carlton said they had Smokey kill Sayid, Sun, and Jin to prove he was really the bad guy, totally evil, etc. Then why tonight were we so sympathetic to him? He seemed like the good guy, while Jacob was a momma’s boy whiner!

4. Seriously, Smokey doesn’t have a name? STILL? What did all his villager friends call him?

5. So the sparkly light coming from the cave is the source of life and death and rebirth, but…wha? I mean…WHA? If you touch it, you suffer a fate worse than death – is it like your soul being ripped from your body? Is that what Smokey is, a disembodied soul?

6. How did the woman make Jacob and Smokey immortal? What is she? And how did she get that way? Sadly I don’t think we’ll ever learn the answer, but I have to ask it.

7. How exactly did the woman burn and kill that whole village? Was she possibly Smokey-like too? And that’s how she knew what happened if you went into the light?

8. How/when did Jacob figure out he could leave the island to visit people?

9. What made Smokey so special compared to Jacob? Was he the same kind of “special” Walt supposedly is?

10. So the wine made Jacob the same as the woman – is that what happened with Richard, when he shared wine with Jacob, making Richard the same as Jacob?

11. The woman stole a newborn baby to be her replacement – does that have anything to do with the Others and their baby stealing?

12. How did the woman magically let the mother speak English? That was weird, amiright?

13. Was the woman really just crazy, or did she have a point in saying that men will always turn to the Dark Side? If Jacob was taught that all men are evil, then how did he end up being the Pro-Mankind guy in this war he’s having with Smokey? Smokey’s the one that agrees with their mother, not Jacob.

14. Does any of this tell us more about the temple and the zombification of all these people? How did Smokey save Ben’s life as a child, and how did that steal his innocence? Does it have anything to do with the light?

15. I wonder if the magical glowy light is the same kind of thing as Widmore zapped Desmond with. Maybe if Desmond went into the glowy light he’d actually survive and not be turned into a smoke monster?

16. When Locke originally saw the smoke monster, he said, “I looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful.” Is it possible Locke saw the magical glowy light and not flashes of his life as others have seen when they looked into the monster? If that’s true, maybe he’s special and that’s why Smokey chose him to possess all this time? (And don’t forget Locke was drawing pictures of the smoke monster as a kid when Alpert came to test him!)

17. The Purge happened when the Dharma people were very close to tapping into the island’s energy – perhaps that was Jacob’s way of stopping them from taking some of it away, just like his mother wiped out all of those ancient Others when they were about to do the same?

Thoughts:
– I like how the mother told Jacob that he had no choice in becoming the island’s protector because now we see why he had no problem drawing all these people to the island and changing their fates. He never had a choice, so neither do they.

– Smokey killed their mom with the dagger by stabbing her in the heart without letting her speak first, which is exactly the way everyone keeps telling other people to kill Smokey. Hm.

– Frozen Donkey Wheel shoutout! Although seriously those people thought deities made the weather and whatnot, how’d they figure out how to rig up a time machine?

– I can’t believe we finally know who Adam and Eve are! And that Jacob and Smokey were TWINS!

– Smokey was able to take on his own form once his physical body died, and that’s how Jacob was seen talking to him. Makes sense.

– As children, Smokey told Jacob that one day he’d be able to create his own game with his own rules, which is exactly what Jacob did in his quest to find a replacement. But I wonder how he went from putting the dead bodies in the cave to eventually writing the names on the cave walls.

– Smokey seeing the ghost of his mother was so like Ben seeing his mother. I wonder if there are any parallels between the two.

– Right before Ben killed Jacob, Ben asked “What about me?” and Jacob said, “What about you?” It’s interesting that both men were raised to think they were something special, but then were both told they were basically second best, or in Ben’s case, not even in the running for the position.

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§ 102 Responses to “SPOILER ALERT: Mini-Recap & Discussion Post for “Across the Sea””

  • baconpie says:

    I don’t think smokey is the man in black any more than he is Locke, Smokey was released when Jacob threw his brother down the golden river tunnel.

    The woman can’t be a smokey either because she had a body that was found later.

    Smokey is the root of all evil, he’s worse than money!

  • Kimmerz says:

    i’m only a bit of a rainer b/c i was like wait, what NOW!?!? now you give us this info?? but whaaaa?

    i wasn’t surprised at smokey and jacob being twins, i felt like i kinda knew that. or sensed it.

    the drinking of the wine reminded me of a scene from Troy (lol i know i know) where Achilles was talking to his mother while they were at the water, she was playing with sea shells or something. reminded me of that. greek.

    not only English but AMERICAN accents. always cracks me up. do we have a date/ time estimate for when this episode took place? really thousands of years? before america? hahaha i always crack up at american accents on this show supposedly before america happened.

    i like how pointed they were about calling Jacob by his name and refusing to call Smokey by his name. did he even get one?

    i like the idea of disembodied souls: reminds me of harry potter when Ron talking about the aww crap, those dead things: We’re not going to be asking, ‘Excuse me, are you the imprint of a departed soul?.

    was jacob all alone then? poor guy, i would freak out, wonder if he made a friend out of something. what did he do then?

    i was so confused by the white black, it’s just not that simple

    PS DID YOU SEE THE PROMO WITH ALL THE MIRRORS!!!! i thought of you

  • dinadandelion says:

    Re: “1. So what is the actual danger of Smokey leaving the island? ”
    I think the evilness of th Smoke Monster/MiB is something that Jacob discovered after the events of this episode. I think they’ll come back to this before the end.

    Re: Frozen Donkey Wheel shoutout! Although seriously those people thought deities made the weather and whatnot, how’d they figure out how to rig up a time machine?
    Ancient people invented math. They’re smarter than people give them credit for.

  • baconpie says:

    Oh and the golden tunnel thing reminded me of the briefcase in “Pulp Fiction”.

  • Emilie says:

    This was an awesome episode. I kept saying outloud: “My mind is being blown.” Can’t wait for next week!!

    Ps. I noticed how they all of a sudden went from Latin? to English. Maybe the writers were just being considerate to those of us with a short attention span?

  • Mindy says:

    I’m thinking Smokey’s “special” because he was unexpected/unwanted, a surprise.
    Kind of like Aaron.
    Or maybe The Woman MADE him special by not giving him a name. Letting him be free to choose his identity and destiny. Or something.
    Interesting episode. Would love to learn more about The Woman, but it’s okay if we don’t. I guess :)

  • […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Rachel Ack. Rachel Ack said: Across the Sea #Lost discussion post: http://bit.ly/dxl5Yd […]

  • dinadandelion says:

    oh. I think the English thing was just stylistic. They did it in a Sayid episode once: The actors were using English, but the viewer was meant to understand that the characters were speaking Arabic. Or in this case, Latin.

  • Dave says:

    Smokey *is* evil! And the MIB in this episode was a pretty sympathetic character. How can this be? Because the Woman was Smokey! That’s how she smashed up the well and the village. MIB killed her (without letting her speak, as you noted, which was important), freeing her from being Smokey. Then Jacob threw MIB into the light, which killed him. The MIB we saw at the end of last season and in the Richard episode–that was Smokey, taking the form of MIB just to piss off Jacob.

    At least, that’s my theory.

  • Emilie says:

    P.s. Baconpie: I think you may be right. It seems like Smokey is as old as the ancient temples and everything. So perhaps Smokey took on the form of MIB after he died. IIIInteresting.

  • John says:

    It’s so confusing. The Man in Black doesn’t want people coming to the island, but wouldn’t that be Jacob’s stance, as he is protecting the island? And the smoke is a “security system” so wouldn’t MiB guard the island with his power? Jacob wants to protect it, so he’d want to keep people away, correct? Is it possible that he’s risking everything just to proove a point to MiB, that no matter how many people he brings they won’t result in the destruction of that light?

  • Sarah says:

    Ack, I really liked it too, and I’m in a minority where I normally discuss the show. Haters to the left, please!

    1. I have no idea, really, lol. IMHO, I think when Jacob pushed the MIB into the light, he somehow became the antithesis of the light – chaos, if you will. I have a feeling that if Smokey gets loose, the light gets loose too, and it will go out, and cause the death of humankind. Perhaps he can not leave the Island, period, and the only way he can is if it’s destroyed, which would destroy the light, which would kill them all.

    (How did you like how the MIB told Jacob how he had been digging – just like the MIB told Desmond that people had been doing, searching for power…except he failed to tell him HE was the one doing the digging!)

    2. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Mother told them they could never die? I don’t think Jacob will be gone until he NAMES his successor – much like Mother.

    3. Because it’s ironic that Jacob made him what he is now?

    4. Dude from Deadwood? (hehe)

    5. (see 1)

    6. I think she’s Mother Earth, or something. Or you might be onto something by saying that she was the original smoke monster, but I don’t think so. I just think she was jaded with humankind.

    8. I’d say sometime after Richard arrived?

    12. I think it was a narrative choice, to hear them both speak Latin, then instead of subtitles the whole episode, they spoke English.

    13. I want to say that I think that Jacob has been trying to prove that humans are good because he feels guilty for killing his brother. That’s the most simple explanation I can think of – he was told he was good, then he flipped out (understandably, I think, but still, it was crazy) and did a BAD THING – he wants to prove to his brother that there is GOODNESS out there, even though he made a poor choice in their history.

    14. I think the pocket of light is under the Temple, and that the pool of Life is actually pulling from the pocket of light under there.

    15. Yeah, I’d say that it’s definitely EM of some sort…but I don’t think it’s the same degree that Des got zapped with. It’s more concentrated, or something. Heh.

    This episode made me feel bad for both boys, because neither of them had a choice in the end. :( But it was acted phenomenally by Titus Welliver and Mark Pellegrino.

  • Macattack! says:

    The ambiguity! The ambiguity! Arggghhhhh!!! Tonight’s flashback left even more room for debate on exactly who is “good” and who is “bad.” Both brothers are products of their environment – “Nature vs. Nurture,” or in their cases, the exact opposite. Both brothers inadvertently went down their respective paths because of an impulsive reaction to a horrible event.

  • NJValkyrie says:

    “Is that what Smokey is, a disembodied soul?”

    Remember what he told Richard: “The Devil betrayed me and took my body.”

  • John says:

    I think neither is good or evil. They’re human and they’re both flawed. It’s obvious that they both have no problem when their choices result in deaths, and they’re both shown to be caring too. Maybe it’s not good vs. evil, it’s just idea vs. idea, human vs. human.

  • Lauren M says:

    “This episode made me feel bad for both boys, because neither of them had a choice in the end. :( But it was acted phenomenally by Titus Welliver and Mark Pellegrino.”

    Agreed. I throughly enjoyed this episode. Some fans just can’t be pleased, they say they want answers and when we actually get them it’s not enough or it’s too much. I don’t have enough brainpower to form any theories, maybe later in the week.

  • Sassafrass says:

    Darn you BaconPie, me too! As soon as I saw the glow I said aloud “just like the freakin’ suitcase from Pulp Fiction!”
    I also said something about a pot of gold and rainbows and leprechauns. I was a bit let down for a minute but then it turned epic! My turn to say “oh LOST, never change”

    I thought this episode was pretty terrific.
    I reckon we are supposed to acccept the American accents just like the Universal Translator on Star Trek. Although the chick from Westwing was distracting as “the woman”
    I want to know more about her too.
    I figured the MIB was gonna jump in when he found the glowing pool again, I was shocked that Jacob was so darn violent and tossed him into it.
    My question is if the smoke monster is NOT the MIB anymore how come the same rules apply to him?

  • Elynne says:

    So Adam and Eve turn out to be Son and Mother from thousands of years ago . . .

    But didn’t Jack (not in tonight’s episode, but in an earlier season) say that the Adam and Eve skeletons were only dead from about 50 years ago?

    That was a big puzzler for me.

  • Stephanie from CT says:

    I think we can safely assume that Smokey is MiB, as we have thought up to this point. In the form of Locke, Smokey is just as adamant about leaving the island as was young MiB and adult MiB all throughout this episode. If the smoke monster was simply a security system released upon MiB’s death, why would that be so?

    Also, we have heard Smokey refer to his ‘crazy mother’ earlier this season. Some people theorized that he was referring to Emily Locke, but although Smokey adopted some of the traits of Locke, he is not Locke and Emily is not his mother.

    Someone else mentioned MiB telling Richard that ‘the devil stole his body and his humanity’. I think that’s strong evidence that Smokey is MiB. Why would a cloud of black smoke hate Jacob so much if that statement wasn’t true?

    Sometimes it’s easy to over-think things with this show, but in this case I think the most likely explanation is the right one: Smokey is MiB, not something release upon his death, but his most evil inner self/consciousness.

  • katrinaholloway says:

    i agree with dinadandelion and someone else up there.

    if you noticed, there’s a distinct “shift”/noise in the soundtrack right after claudia says her name in latin, and then they start talking in english. my guess is that we were meant to understand that they were still speaking latin, but we heard it “translated” in english :)

    and at first, when the episode ended, i was rather disappointed. now, after writing some thoughts about it and thinking about it, it’s growing on me :)

  • Petey says:

    I think the switch to English was simply a way for us to watch the episode without having to read subtitles; they were still speaking that funky language; the writers were just making it easier on the audience.

    If not that then the switch is obviously other-worldly in nature; there aren’t going to be accents. This might make sense too, as Smokey, The Woman, and Jacob, would have the ability to converse with anyone; and we already know Jacob’s korean dialect is excellent.

    I also think that the smoke monster is certainly the same as Smokey; it was not realeased and it is not seperate. It’s something he turned into.

    I think the main reason Smokey would see Jacob’s younger self all bloody was because he basically has Hurley’s ability to see dead people, or at least did.

  • Barb says:

    I wasn’t sure what to think at first, ’cause it seemed kind of clunky early on, but once it got going, it was great. So much to think about, and I really liked the level of answers they gave. I WANT to fill in a few blanks with my own interpretations. That’s part of good storytelling.

    Anyway, I think that going to the source of that light did rip MIB from his body – kind of like the thing with mortals not being able to withstand God’s actual voice. Going to the source is a “sin” and there’s a price to pay. Maybe it’s also like eating the apple in the Garden of Eden. The point being that MIB turned evil as a result of what The Woman and Jacob did. It does make MIB fairly tragic, but he’s still evil. Rage, anger, the dark side are these. And Anakin had his tragic events, too. (Sorry, really mixing the mythologies here.)

    MIB did believe the people were bad, as he explained from living among them, while Jacob thought they seemed good, from a distance. I think that explains the difference in views. Jacob has never lived among people, and keeps a somewhat idealistic view. Glad we saw, though, that he does have violence within him – regarding him beating up Richard. He apparently did grow out of it, though.

    It was obvious the woman was going to give birth to twins – and I immediately thought of that Season 1 book “Bad Twin” … maybe they did have a plan all along!

    I like the theories that the magic pool tapped the light source; doesn’t bode well that it’s now tainted, though! And also the idea of the Purge being carried out to stop Dharma from reaching that light source. However – apparently the level of healing needed also taints the recipient, much like going down into the tunnel does. Dipping a hand in, maybe not so much. Healing serious wounds means you lose your innocence (and are able to access the evil side, a la Ben). Being brought back to life turns you into a zombie … though somehow Sayid’s innate goodness overcame that in his sacrifice for others.

    Sorry for the length of this post – it was a great episode! I felt like it tied a lot of things together. Now, hopefully, they’ll reveal that the sideways world is wrong and they must wake up from it to save the world.

  • iczorro says:

    1. When Brother floated in to the cave, the light went out. I’m taking that to mean the light is present within the Smoke Monster.

    It has the entity of the light, but the consciousness of Jacob’s brother.

    So… the reason the Smoke Monster can’t be allowed to leave the Island is that the light would go out.

    The light going out would cause all humanity to cease existing.

    2. We don’t know.

    3. Tricksy show runners, playing with our emotions…

    4. His villager friends all probably called him Brother in Latin (Frater), which, since they spoke Northern Highlands Swedish, maby sounded like a name. I dunno, I’m spitballin here.

    5. It does seem to have ripped Frater’s soul right outta his body, while not killing him. Sounds pretty shitty to me.

    6. What you said.

    7. Either she was smokey-like as well, or she had ranged weapons we didn’t see any evidence of. Maybe she could kick ass like Trinity.

    8. 1947. Does it matter? I want to know how he started drawing people in.

    9. He was special in the way mothers think their favorite children are special. Jacob, on the other hand, seemed a little autism special.

    11. Sets a precedent, doesn’t it?

    12. Seemed more like, “Ok, so you don’t have to read the rest of the episode, we’ll take the other language thing as a given, now. That way Alison Janney doesn’t have to speak American accented Latin the rest of the time.”

    13. Smokey always seemed to be more like Mom than Jacob was.

    16. Refer to my answer to number one. If the light is now inside Smokey, maybe John did see it.

  • kid entropia says:

    “The more I am thinking about all of this, the more confused I am getting.” Thanks, Ack! That´s exactly how i´d sum up my experience watching this episode xD. I liked it, mind you! But it left me terribly confused in many aspects!!!

  • Calandra says:

    I’m SO FRUSTRATED at not knowing Jacob’s Brother’s name! It seems to me like he never got one, though. I feel sorry for him, and I like him. But I think he’s completely different from the Smoke Monster. I think the Smoke Monster is a manifestation of all the dark feelings Jacob’s Brother felt towards the woman who raised him and the people he lived with, and maybe Jacob. He lost his physical body, and maybe…the good part of his soul went into the light? This reminds me of a myth, but I can’t quite put my finger on it.

    Or maybe Smokey’s just the pissed-off, vengeful spirit of Jacob’s Brother.

    Or…maybe he is the light! Maybe he’s what happens when the light corrupts people. But were the flashes that happened when Ben turned the donkey wheel of DOOM, and when the time flashes were happening, the light from the cave? What is up with that?

    This is weird. This is great! I’m thinking Jacob will probably lead Jack (Sayid said “it’s going to be you” to him, remember?) to the Cave of Wonders and make him drink some wine.

    Awesome, Lost. Just awesome. I friggin’ love this show.

  • Antoinette says:

    1) I think it’s still science vs. faith. Jacob = faith. Smokey = science. If you think science is evil then you think Smokey is evil. I think in the LA_X world that’s the world with Smokey let loose. Everyone is happy there. They get to decide their own fate. It’s Jacobless. I like it. I’m sure Darlton are going to go all religious on us, and tell us why that’s wrong. But I’m sticking with science/MIB.

    2) I think Jacob is pulling a MIB and appearing as dead a relative to F with MIB. Just like Eko seeing Yemi, now MIB is seeing his brother.

    3) I think Darlton intend for us to think he’s evil, but we can have our own opinions. Imo, Smocke didn’t want to kill the candidates until Jack refused to leave the Island right there on the dock. Jack forced his hand. He had to kill him/them.

    4) He just doesn’t have a name. His mom didn’t name him and he, Jacob, and that woman lived alone all those years, so he didn’t need one. His villager friends probably called him Booger.

    5) Same source as in Matrix Revolutions. The fate worse than death is eternal life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L8-FTvSVxs

    6) Someone asked on another site if she was Lillith. I thought that was a good guess. I think she’s just Jacob’s predecessor.

    7) That sounds good. I hadn’t thought about it.

    8) IDK

    9) He’s better looking.

    10) Maybe it’s the blood of Christ, ever-lasting life type stuff.

    11) She’s barren or alone with no sperm. Where else is she gonna get a kid?

    12) I don’t think she was speaking anything. He was hearing in English or just plain vibes. Imagine a higher being. Would they really need Google translate?

    13) Crazy. Alone too long. Like Claire.

    14) Sure. It makes you immortal which is fine if you’re alive. If you’re dead then you’re undead.

    15) Good idea. Hadn’t thought of that.

    16) I do believe that is what Locke saw somehow.

    17) Were they going to take it or use it?

  • mkhall says:

    I’m not a hater, honest, but this episode disappointed me quite. Now put down the torches and pitchforks and let me explain.

    If this was a Season 5 ep I would be thrilled: we finally get a little meat for the “origin story” for the island. But it almost the end. There’s just not enough time left to answer the new questions raised, to wit:

    * What is the golden light? (And is it the source of the phrase “Don’t go into the light!”

    * What is the smoke?

    * What is in the “wine”? It made Mother and Jacob “the same,” but how?

    * The Mother mumbled “magic words” at several moments during the episode, so does that mean it isn’t science fiction any longer?

    * Where did The Mother come from?

    * How did she massacre the original Others?

    * For that matter, were they the originals? How long had the Mother been there before stealing the twins?

    * What is the intrinsic difference between the twins?

    * MiB could see and speak with dead people, even when alive; Jacob couldn’t/can’t. Why?

    * What’s the big deal with MiB getting off the Island?

    * And so on and so on and so on…

    If this episode had come out a year ago I would be okay with it, because there would still be time to address these issues, but as it is there is barely going to be enough time for the action-packed finale the series demands, and still leave space to accommodate the ‘shippers. Unless they bring in a special guest appearance by Professor Exposition it just isn’t going to happen, which means those people interested in the story and the mystery will probably have to settle for half-assed resolutions.

    I have my own ideas of what the real back story could be, but I won’t bore you with them. The acting in this story was quite good, and the story was emotionally moving. I just wish it could have given those of us concerned with the metastory a little more satisfaction.

    On the Ack’s questions:

    1) We still don’t have any idea why anyone cares if MiB leaves the Island. He isn’t the devil, he’s just a bored and pissed off ex-human.

    2) MiB is probably freaked by seeing Jacob’s ghost because it’s a reminder to him that his brother is watching him. MiB’s freaked when other people can see Jacob’s ghost because according to the Mother MiB can only see ghosts because he’s special.

    3) I think they killed all those people because they knew this week’s episode would make MiB look like the good guy so they launched a pre-emptive strike. It didn’t work. MiB and Jacob still look equally bad.

    4) His name is Robert Paulson.

    5-7) We’ll never know, although I’m pretty sure Smokey is a disembodied soul fortified with special Light-based goodies.

    8) They’d better freaking explain that, yes. MiB can’t leave, but Jacob can hop a flight whenever he likes?

    9)Genetic mutation that lets you see dead people/gives you psychic powers? Maybe Walt, Hugo, MiB, and Miles are all potential X-Men?

    10) Magic explanation: the wine does a transubstantiation in the drinker, making them one with the Force– er, Light. Or Sci-fi: It’s got nanites in it to make you immortal, but ties you to the Source– er, Light.

    11) I suspect the baby-stealing thing is all tied in somehow, and babies are cute so THAT they may explain. The statue, the fact that babies on the Island tend to die, the baby-stealing: it could have to do with Jacob’s replacement needing to be a mutant. Maybe.

    12) They switched from Latin to English because they didn’t want to pull a Mel Gibson.

    13) They have everyone’s motivations so jacked up it’s impossible to tell any longer.

    14) The temple water is what saved little Ben, not Smokey (as far as I can tell). And I’m assuming the temple water is a spring that comes from the Light, so it’s all magic n’shit.

    15) Possibly Chuckie W has managed to duplicate the Light, but I kind of doubt it. And how many other people would have actually seen the source, anyway?

    16) Locke seems a good candidate (heh) to be special in the same way as Baby MiB, yes. But otherwise I suspect that Smokey was just showing Locke what MiB wanted him to see.

    17) That’s a good call, I agree. Jacob is just as willing to kill as MiB, that much is obvious.

  • ikik says:

    Best cold open ever.

    Re: Dave and some other folks…Dude, yes! I think the smoke monster is an entity within the heart of the island that get released by someone, and then can use them as a host. The only way to stick the smoke monster back into the heart of the island is to kill the host (stab through the heart before they can speak, etc.). Brother banished the smoke monster when he killed Mother, but then Jacob re-released the monster when he threw brother into the light. Hmm, sort of ouroborous-ey. (Also, let’s face it – I can’t spell that word.)

  • Princess says:

    Didn’t The Woman say “thank you” to Brother after he stabbed her? Was she also immortal and that was the only way she could be released?

    I’m leaning toward she went down into the light once and became Smokey. Otherwise, how could she fill in the well and destroy the Others and their village by herself? Except at the end when Brother killed her, she had a physical body.

    I would also like to learn more about her but something tells me it ain’t gonna happen. :(

  • Calandra says:

    @Antoinette: The first point of your post makes me think about how this show treats predestination. If you notice, most of the characters’ lives suck in the reality in which flight 815 crashed. Did their lives suck because they were predestined to get to the island? Maybe! And maybe this whole show is about how the very idea of predestination sucks. The woman who raised Jacob and his brother had predestined Jacob’s Brother to be the one to protect the Cave of Wonders, but that shit didn’t work out. Jacob is the reason all the candidates are on the island, and being on that island has sucked for them for the most part. Even before they got to the island things sucked. And it’s all because they had to go through sucky things to get there. Their lives suck because of predestination.

    Therefore, predestination totally sucks according to Lost.

  • Bsti says:

    See, now there needs to be a Woman/Mother origin story that we’ll never get, as well as a whole spinoff series about Jacob And The Brother (both from another mother). So many thousands of years, so much comedic potential.

  • Calandra says:

    @BSTI: Maybe she’s just always been there. Or maybe she was chosen just like Jacob was. And maybe there was a long line of people who protected the Cave of Wonders. Or maybe it was a family thing and she was the last person left of her family and needed someone to take over.

  • scott s says:

    Firstly, BSTI I agree, that whole time I was like, they need to make a whole other series that takes place in this ancient time period… i found it very fascinating.

    On another note, as soon as the mother said she only thought of one name and The Woman didn’t give him one, you can safely bet they will never reveal his name… why? because it’s an old movie trick which Quentin stole for the glowing box in pulp fiction.. you never know what it is. it comes from a film noir movie in the 30s or so, the whole movie you’re wondering the answer to something significant and the director never reveals it.

    The guys did say that they will leave some things up for debate forever.

    And I agree he wants to get off the island to see finally where he came from, but if he leaves the light will go out and everything will cease to exist so… what’s up there?

    But remember we still have to consider what the other time line means and how they will cross. BTW loved the preview for next week, The End… so perfect. The juxatopositioning scenes etc.

  • Radlum says:

    At first I didn’t like many of the elements of this episode (specially the magic light and the clips from that episode in Season 1, I doubt anyone watching the final season has forgotten Adam and Eve), but after thinking a bit about the elements presented, I actually liked this episode. I stand by my theory that MiB and Smokey are too different entities, Smokey just takes MiB’s form since he’s the counterpart of Jacob, but it keeps some of the memories of MiB (like he did when he impersonated Christian, Yemi or Locke, after all, he knew things he otherwise couldn’t have known)

  • Calandra says:

    @Scott S: I don’t think the Man in Black’s name is just some kind of MacGuffin (which is what the briefcase in Pulp Fiction is). I think his name or lack thereof is central to his characterization. It’s just got to be significant somehow, even if he doesn’t have one, either to the plot or it’s symbolic of his role on the island and how he would effect the world if he were released from the island.

    Lost, you’ve got some splaining to do!

  • Tatiana says:

    GUYZ, come on, can we at least talk about the budget special effects and general cheapness of this episode?!?!

    That BIRTH SCENE OMG. Baby Jacob popped out and wow, what a clean Caucasian baby! Just compare that to Claire’s birth back in season 2 when they at least attempted some realism. Wow.

    I. Can. Not. Believe that they started this season with all that nonsense at the temple. Now that it’s clear that not a single damn character from that temple is going to matter…wow. I can’t believe they made us sit through an episode where we got the backstory of some Japanese guy with a really old baseball. Just remembering the temple is making me hyperventilate.

    IS THERE REALLY A GOOD REASON WHY WE COULDN’T HAVE STARTED THIS SEASON WITH THIS EPISODE AND TAKEN IT FROM THERE? Because seriously. I have some questions, Alison Janney.

  • latenac says:

    “1. So what is the actual danger of Smokey leaving the island? ”

    I don’t think Smokey is actually trying to leave the island. I think he’s trying to get rid of all of the potential protectors of the island so people can come and exploit the island and the light will go out. So I guess in that way Smokey would be able to leave the island.

    I also agree that Smokey is not Original MIB. He was FMIB and now he’s Flocke.

    And frankly as to not rain down too much hate if the writers really wanted to set this up as a reoccurring struggle between good and evil that has happened before and keeps happening until St. Jack saves everyone it could have been set up to better effect well before the 2nd to last regular episode of the show ever.

  • snoop says:

    What I did tell you guys eh? Ever since that scene from Recon where Kate and Mocke had that scene where Mocke talked about his mommy issues, I called it. I knew MiB & his mom were gonna be the Adam & Eve skeletons. Everybody else was like : “na!”, “Sawyer & Juliet”, “Rose & Bernard”, “Sun & Jin”. Well, there you have it. I’m not one to gloat but : PWNED!!

    On a more serious note, I love this episode. It’s beautifully shot & edited and the music is awesome. But it does leave a lot of things open to one’s interpretations. In the grand tradition of a Lost episode, answers and clear explanations of weird stuff is kind of frowned upon. Like Allison Janney, who one should call “Fother”, just because she’s the twins’ fake mother. I still haven’t processed the whole episode yet, so I’ll watch it again and come back.

  • Mila says:

    the only thing i can see in the wine is that it stopps people from aging. jacob was than like his mother who didn’t age in those 30 years. maybe the wine containes somehow a little bit of that death-life-rebirth-light or some of its magic.

    i thought the woman considered “mib” to be special because he is wittier than jacob :D jacob is kind of “special”. i mean, what is wrong with him? “oh, so you killed our actual mother because she would make us evil…i have to stay with you forever and don’t have any human contact besides you? great!”
    and because of that the actual mother spoke to her unnamed son instead to her son that would just run away to the woman?

    what do you make out of the scene where jacob and his brother were newborns and jacob was totally calm while his brother cried like..well. a newborn?

    most random thought:
    the place where the light is reminded me of the waterfall at monkey island. behind that there is a hole and it looked like it!
    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/thumbnail/1225747791-01.jpg

  • Lindsay says:

    Great insights, Ack! Poor MIB never got a name…I started calling him Esau last night, couldn’t help drawing the biblical references, even though the birth order was reversed. I think you are right about Smokey being MIB, and strong possibility The Woman was before him. And I liked your conclusion about the wine re: The Woman/Jacob/Richard.

  • Liz says:

    Here’s a thought that was generated while reading all of these posts…

    What if the reason MiB is so angry is because Jacob, by killing his body, took away his ability to choose to leave the island? In the same way that Jacob’s fate was indirectly chosen for him by his fake Mother and the MiB’s defection to the other people, MiB’s fate was indirectly chosen for him by Jacob.

    …though you would think that if they’d been on the island for centuries they would have had ample time to find an opportunity to talk about all this and have some reconciliation… (really? A centuries-long grudge?)

  • Henry Gale says:

    “Across the Sea”?
    Why not “Bad Twin”?!!! ;-)

  • Greytune says:

    Are we going to have to call him MIB forever now?

  • mhenry1384 says:

    A few people have mentioned the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. I’ll just throw out that the idea for the glowing briefcase in Pulp Fiction was almost certainly taken from the glowing briefcase in Kiss Me Deadly (1955). I guess in all 3 cases (PF, KMD and Lost) the shiny light is the MacGuffin.

  • nyoi4fib says:

    Has anyone ever read The Talisman by Stephen King? Being that Darlton is a big fan of SK, the “hole of light” is exactly what the talisman man is in the book. A ball of light which is the existence of all worlds. The good and bad of all worlds. The talisman has healing powers also, which I believe is what healed Ben, Sayid, etc. I have always thought from the start the series mimmicks the book. There are just too many similarities for it not to.

  • mojomom says:

    worst. ep. ever.

    Somehow, she’s able to raise newborn twins w/o any milk…but they never refer to the MIB by a name. I guess he was “hey you”.

    When they are 13, she brings them to this cave that’s half under water, and its all golden glowy..and she’s like this is really good, don’t touch it, protect it forever… and if you go in there, you are worse than dead. (what, uber dead?) and….DON’T ASK WHY!!

    MIB kid says “what’s dead?” and she says “something you’ll never have to worry about”.

    She tells them that she’s “made” it so that they won’t die, and can’t hurt each other. But Jacob kicks the kids ass a few times, making him bleed. And then kills him… so I guess she was wrong about that huh? Whatever!

    Everything in there we understood before- that they are some type of demigods playing a game w/ humanity, obviously pretty immortal except for some loopholes…. That ep just illustrated it all, w/o giving us any answers.

    And then theres the ridiculous part where jacob puts them into the cave w/ the pounch for the stones….and they show Jack and Kate and Locke discovering our Adam and Eve – skeletons w/ clothes that didn’t completely rot and liquify despite being in the hot moist jungle un-embalmed for 2000 freakin’ years !!! They were in better shape than Yemi’s body !!! Than Claire’s hair after 3 years w/o a comb !!!

    Dumb. I am now officially worried that the finale is going to blow.

  • Clairedelunatic says:

    It looked to me like Janney’s character “The Woman” had no real intent of killing the mom until Esau was born too (yes I’m totally calling him Esau forever now because I don’t think we’re getting a name and the parody is too close). Esau was crying and Jacob was placid and the woman indicated that Jacob was ALWAYS the choice to be Island Administrator.

    “The Source”???? I don’t know what the thell they’re getting at and I’m even more confused than usual. I thought she was getting on about the source of everything but in her last sentence describing it she limited it to the island instead of the source of all things. Now I’m afraid that this is all a colossal cluster fuck specific to the island and this whole shindig has no implications on the real world except where Jacob and the islanders go into the real world and fuck up your life.

    If everything Jacob knows was from The Woman and she didn’t really explain anything last night then how did Jacob learn more and how did he leave the island at all? All that the woman taught Jacob seemed to be in front of us and she still didn’t say much of anything so how did Jacob come to build the mirror and all the other crap and know how to replace himself?

    I’ve got too many questions in my head and I’m actually worried that they aren’t going to get answered before the end of it all.

  • Peter says:

    I have to agree with mojomom. I was let down by this. I really didnt see any need for a lot of it. And the whole bit with jack and kate from season one seemed like it was a desperate attempt by the writers to say “we knew what we were doing from the start” It mainly bothers me because we’re running out of time and this didnt get us closer.

  • snoop says:

    To the Haters:

    Dear Mr & Mrs Party-pooper,

    PLEASE don’t ruin our fun with your negativity.
    That is all.

    ——————————————————–

    I also feel like there are a few clues that we’ve been given about how Smokey came to be.

    MiB said to Richard “You aren’t the only one who’s lost something, my friend. The Devil (i.e. Jacob) betrayed me. He took my body. My Humanity.”
    Let’s also consider what “Fother” (Fake+Mother, Janney’s character) said : “It would be worse than dying, Jacob”, and “Life, death, rebirth, it’s the source, the heart of the island”.
    Last clue is, we saw MiB’s dead body.

    My theory is : MiB’s soul was separated from his body. For all intents and purposes, his human form is dead. The exotic energy (with curious electromagnetic properties) bonded with his soul to create the entity known as the Smoke Monster.

  • Princess says:

    @Tatiana, I also thought the special effects were cheesy and as backstory this episodes was not really satisfying. If we were going to learn what makes the island so “special” I’d have liked to have seen more than a glowing spot on the stream and hearing vague mumbo jumbo about it being the source of everything.

    @Mojomom, I was also wondering how she was going to nurse the newborns. Might have been handy to keep the birth mom around for a little while, then bump her off. Or maybe she can magically nurse them through the island’s powers. *eyes rolling*

    I liked some things about this episode: learning that Jacob and MIB were brothers, seeing how deep-seated their rivalry was, learning that they liked to play games. But a decent episode could have been so much better. Maybe I just expect too much from Lost now.

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